Kelleah

QotD: Annoying Slang: FTW!

Comments

[this is good]
this is one helluva good post, Miss K.
Thanks, Miss G. It took a while to pull my thoughts together into something coherent, but it's an issue that's been bugging me for a long time.
lmao @ the krumping/poppin convo. I can only imagine how ridiculous it was.

You know Bank Heist burned down right? The key to bars/clubs in this afrea, hell in any part of L.A., is to frequent them before the word gets out how fun they are. My bf and I celebrated his bday at one such club (which I will not be posting the name of on the web to protect it for as long as possible, but I will tell you the name of in person if asked) and had a great time. But, it's only a matter of a few months more before it's no longer as fun.

How would you succintly describe an area like Reseda (which I will fully admit to not liking and having no interest in visiting again) or parts of Inglewood to describe the working-class feel? Working-class can be quite a mouthful.

I would simply call Reseda a working-class neighborhood. Same as Inglewood. I could see blackfolks calling Inglewood "the 'hood," which some people -- esp. white people -- would say is the same thing as the ghetto, but they're not. Inglewood has sections that are clearly lower middle-class, if not simply middle class. Homes and business that look like Average-Joe Middle America. And it has areas that are working class, where the economy has hit them harder than others, but are no means hot beds of violent crime and substandard living. These descriptions are apt. And they're not anywhere near the level of a ghetto. Not even close.

For instance, when I took my mother down to Watts to see the Towers, it was pretty obvious that this area had been gutted by the economy. I didn't see any prostitutes or gang bangers, but I saw homes where it was clear that the only thing holding them together and making them presentable was the love and care of the homeowner. Watts has a 22% unemployment rate. During the height of the Great Depression, the U.S. only had a 25% unemployment rate. The average L.A. city or community has a 7% unemployment rate.

I live in Van Nuys. Right up the street from Reseda. You can drive from Van Nuys to Reseda and never know you crossed the town line until you looked up and noticed so many storefronts in Spanish. Graffiti on a wall does not make a town the ghetto. Perhaps working class is a mouthful because so many people in this country are working class. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I doubt that Reseda has a 22% unemployment rate.

Preferring to stay out of a neighborhood doesn't make it a ghetto. Hell, I prefer to stay out of Silverlake and Brentwood, but that doesn't make either a ghetto. But it has a huge Latino and Thai population and black faces are not always welcome. I honestly feel that if anyone would describe Reseda as a ghetto, they clearly have no idea what a ghetto is. There isn't shit going on there that isn't going on in Studio City, Valley Village, or Venice.

I get your point. There are just some words though that over time have lost their original meaning and ghetto seems to be one of them. When some people say ghetto, I don't think they always mean it to be defined in the way that it applied in early 20th century NYC or 1980s South Central. It bothers me though when it's used as a synonym for "black" or "latino" and clearly seems to have negative racial overtones.

For instance, this example - "Graffiti on a wall does not make a town the ghetto." , I might call that neighborhood ghetto if it's riddled with graffiti and trash in the streets. But, by that I just mean it's tacky, and there are residents with no regard for the value of their neighborhood or consideration for others. (I refuse to acknowledge graffiti as art if it's straight up vandalism). Of course that's a simplistic explanation, but it's just simpler to say "It's Ghetto" than to say the more verbose, "That's a neighborhood where many working-class, well-meaning, underprivileged people live where the streets are littered with trash and the walls covered with graffiti due to the actions of some wayward, unencumbered by the values of social-consideration folks...". :) It's just easy. Also, I am a little bit of a snob, so that probably has something to do with it. heh.

You feel unwelcome in Silverlake?
BTW, I hope I don't come across as attacking or antagonizing you in your own journal. Just enjoying a good-natured volleying :) .

FTR, I can't stand how many guys call each other "Bro" or "Brother" these days. "Duuuude, what's up bro?" "What's going on, bro?"

Yes, I acknowledged in my post that the original meaning of ghetto has lost its connotation over time, but what I don't understand is when did neighborhoods only have 3 label options: upper class, middle class, and ghetto. My problem is that some people seem to insist that anything not upper or middle class is ghetto, and anything predominantly African-American or Latino is ghetto. Both are wrong. The first is classist and the second is racist. And often in our country, they go hand-in-hand.

Of course that's a simplistic explanation, but it's just simpler to say "It's Ghetto" than to say the more verbose, "That's a neighborhood where many working-class, well-meaning, underprivileged people live where the streets are littered with trash and the walls covered with graffiti due to the actions of some wayward, unencumbered by the values of social-consideration folks...".

Why not simply call it a neighborhood? I guess what I don't understand is this overwhelming desire that people have in insisting that they're better than this group of people over here. Maybe that's where the disconnect is. For some reason, I seem to attract snobs in many areas of my life, and it forces me to question why that is. Is it because they think I'm a fellow snob? Is it because of the way I carry myself? The way I dress? Speak? Are my name-brand-sneakers-bought-on-sale and banged-up 5-yr-old Saturn sending mixed messages?

Ever since middle school, high school, and my entrance into my chosen profession, snobby people seem to be everywhere I look. (Thank God, I went to a small HBCU so I escaped many of those attittudes in college.) I feel like I'm constantly surrounded by people who are always looking down on someone because of their gender, race, nationality, ethnicity, economic class, etc. And 99.9% of the time, I don't share their beliefs.

Why do you feel the need to label any neighborhood with graffiti and random trash here and there a ghetto? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Do want them to mimic your neighborhood because you feel it's a better example of how everyone should live and take care of their home? Do you feel like you're better than the people who live in Reseda?

I know it sounds antagonistic, but I really want to know. I don't get this. I am by no means perfect, and I can't say I've never judged anybody. Perhaps it's the fact that I'm a white-collar worker from a largely blue-collar family, but I find it upsetting that people who were born into a certain class adopt a holier-than-thou POC about others who were born into another. And most members of the upper and middle class exhibit the exact same behavior as members of the working and lower class. Do you see the conundrum?

I can't say I feel unwelcome in Silverlake, because I don't think the people who live in Silverlake would ever have the balls to tell me that I'm not welcome there. It would make them appear racist, and they wouldn't want anyone to think that about them. Appearances are very important. (No, I'm not being facetious. I know that appearances are important.)

But no, I don't feel comfortable at Silverlake at all. Nor parts of Atwater Village or Los Feliz. I clearly don't fit in there, and it makes me uncomfortable to spend anything more than one evening there with friends, say for an event like a UCB show or a get-together at a buddy's house. I would never intentionally hang out there. There seems to be only one acceptable POV amongst residents and if you share it, you'll enjoy your time there. But if you don't, you'll be miserable. I don't want to hang out in any area where I have to be fake the whole time. It's exhausting and makes me feel like I need a shower afterwards.

Why not simply call it a neighborhood? I guess what I don't understand is this overwhelming desire that people have in insisting that they're better than this group of people over here.

If someone asked me, "Hey, what do you think of Panorama City?" I would have to give a description of the neighborhood. I would describe it as crowded, with many run-down homes, shopping centers and apartment buildings, many parts of it aren't well-kept, an overabundance of liquor stores and a higher crime-rate than other parts of L.A.. It's about the environment, not the people who live there and how hard they do or don't work, or any feelings of superiority over them. Otherwise, I don't just haphazardly go around labeling and ranking neighborhoods, lol.

"Why do you feel the need to label any neighborhood with graffiti and random trash here and there a ghetto? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Do want them to mimic your neighborhood because you feel it's a better example of how everyone should live and take care of their home? Do you feel like you're better than the people who live in Reseda?"

The only time I would label a neighborhood is if asked to describe it. If you asked me if I would want to live in Reseda, I'd say no and tell you why. Not because I feel better than any of the residents, but it's not a neighborhood I would feel safe in or would like the ambiance of. I prefer to live in a neighborhood that is clean and safe and well-maintained. I don't feel that has anything to do with feelings of superiority, but rather a matter of what makes me happy and makes me feel pride in my surroundings. I don't want to live somewhere that I constantly feel at odds with the residents way of living. Where I have to fight an ongoing battle to get people to put trash in the dumpsters instead of on the street or save their drawings for the canvas instead of a building that hasn't given them permission. I've lived in all kinds of neighborhoods (except I guess the "highest" class) and have to come know where I feel comfortable living. But, I don't look down on people that don't live like I do because either their preferences or circumstances are different. When I would visit my "little sister" in Panorama City I didn't turn my nose up at her and her family or their apartment. They seem happy there and good for them. It's just not for me. Some people may not feel that Valley Village, where I live, is where they feel comfortable and that's fine for them as long as they aren't turning there nose up at the residents.

In the end, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else calls a neighborhood, it's not the words, but the intended meaning behind the words. A person will feel free to infer whatever meaning they want to the words of others. For the record, I make a concerted effort to not use the word ghetto, just because it's just too messy a word. But, occasionally I may use the term ghetto around a friend who knows what I mean when I say it because it's quick and I don't have to go into long description of what of I mean. They'll know that I don't mean it as way to feel superior to others, because that's not who I am.

"Perhaps it's the fact that I'm a white-collar worker from a largely blue-collar family, but I find it upsetting that people who were born into a certain class adopt a holier-than-thou POC about others who were born into another. And most members of the upper and middle class exhibit the exact same behavior as members of the working and lower class. Do you see the conundrum?"

Yep, it bothers me too.

Wow, I haven't had a problem in Silverlake or Los Feliz. But, I like the eclecticism and rich history of Silverlake and Los Feliz. Now, Newport Beach? Don't get me started.
The town I grew up in had a ghetto but it was about 70% or more white. When we used the term, it was more akin to things found in the lower socio-economic group than anything else. In our case, it referred to things associated with white folks though there was no race connotation intended.

I think it all depends on personal experiences.
[this is good]

Damn thats good, and so true! Here in Toronto, similar things happen, cept not so...I don't know, people at most ends here are open minded as far as I see. But yeah, and the exchange happens between 'wiggers' too. It's annoying, but hey, maybe that "ignorance is bliss" thing is working out for them.
Thoughtful and well executed. Thank you for sounding off.

i have no idea how i wound up here reading your blog...i don't even remember honestly how i got here.

but i never really noticed how often people (including myself) use the term "ghetto" to describe things in every day situations. hmm. thats all i'll say on that! but very eloquent post.

[this is good]
I'm a non-American living in the U.S. I love your deconstruction here. It's so easy to use language carelessly. In in my case, as a cultural transplant, I naturally tend to mimic the language of native speakers and learn the meanings of slang expressions from context -- which, as your post shows, can be a dangerous (and sloppy) practice. Thanks for the reminder!
[this is good]
This term annoys me. So, so, so much. It just is so... for lack of a better word, stupid the way they use it. How is it bad (or good- I've heard white people trying to be "ghetto" too and they're equally annoying and racist, I think) to be like a bad neighborhood? It doesn't even make much sense how people use that word when you think of it as a bad neighborhood.

I always get this crazy wish to show anyone who says "ghetto" a picture of an original ghetto. You know, the Nazi kind. That would shut them and their annoying ghetto-usage down, I'm sure. (But now I think I'd rather just show them this post, it does the job so much better and nicer.)
[this is good]
There are so many words I hear that make my skin crawl around on me. This use of 'ghetto' is one of them. Maybe it's from growing up with a father who would scream at us "You would never survive in a concentration camp!" As if he had any experience in that particular environment. (He didn't - far from it.)

Anyway, thanks for a great and informative and helpful and insightful post. As for the dance videos, I would guess that the reason the second one strikes so differently is that they look like their having fun. Who doesn't want to have fun? I do! I do! The first dancer looks like she's on a mission to do ... something. But it doesn't look like fun. It's impressive and energetic - but not fun.

On the other hand, the last dance I successfully learned and performed without falling down, tripping someone else or spraining something was the polka. My observation may not count for much.

I liked the way you put this together. When I first saw the title and the beginning I was thinking 'oh great, here's an African-American woman talking about us crackers being racist'.... But when I read more than two sentences, I understood your point better and also your point of view...

While on the subject of slang that people hate... Cracker is a very stupid word. (not that I'm insinuating you USING the word but, just something I find similar.)

I have a black friend named Johnny. He always calls people crackers but then when you call him BLACK, he freaks.... I always think it's a total double standard. I don't want to tell people they have to call me Swedish-Caucasian-American, but if you want to be treated special, you shouldn't be the one being EXTRA special if you know what I mean.

Chris Rock bothers me. In his last comedy special, it was ALL about duh duh duh DAA WHITE PEOPLE. That was pretty ridiculous. Usually, I like his comedy as a little racist joke is funny sometimes, especially when they're true. Like redneck jokes and hick jokes.... Norwegian, Polish.... Things like that.... But I have to say, he went REALLY over the top. The only thing I can remember from the special was talking about drugs. Something about 'White people can bring in ANY drugs they want, weed, pills, METH, but when a brotha bring in some cocaine, it's a huge thing...' This is not verbatum, don't get me wrong, but I hate that everything in that specail was basically blamed on white people.

We get discriminated against as well. I felt it was a little discriminating to say "Let's set aside the fact that most of you wouldn't know a real ghetto if it fell out of the sky and started to wiggle on your lap" Please don't think I'm saying that it was wrong to say, as you are right. Many people I know think that Maple Grove in Minneapolis is a 'ghetto' or Brooklyn Park, Nicollet Ave. All of which are places I've lived and have family.

I do NOT know how it is to live in a true ghetto, nor am I really for people using the word in MANY ways, but in the instance where people have 'NO CLASS' I believe it is okay... Sorry, this was longer than intended.

~Smitty (!)~

Aww, man. I wrote this hella-long reply to your post yesterday, and it looks like Vox eatededed it. Crap. Thanks Vox. That reply was insightful, thought-provoking, and could've earned me a Pulitzer in "Pontificating Drivel."

Anyway, I'll just take the time to say, are we still on for Saturday, or do you hate my guts now? I don't want you to be uncomfortable around me at the concert, and the last thing I want to do is make you feel defensive about your choices. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail when you get a minute.

I hope everything's still copasetic. At least until you give me your half of the money! LOL!! Then it's on like popcorn. :-P

Thank you for your nice comments on my post. I really wasn't expecting much feedback when I posted it. I appreciate your thoughts.

Actually, if you saw the first vid I put up (the one that's since been removed by the owner), you would have seen him perform the moves with just as much, if not more, energy and vitality as the kids in the last video. So I don't think whether or not the performer looks like they're having fun really plays into how the dance is vulgar and unacceptable in one instance, but an amazing addition to the world of dance in the next.

BTW, I think the woman in the second video was preparing an entry for a contest, so I can understand her focus. The kids in the last video were just fooling around with a camera for fun. Different circumstances breed different performances, but neither is worthy of criticism in terms of what is and what isn't an acceptable form of dance, which was kind of my point.

I don't know if I would agree with that Potty Mouth, but I won't deny you your experiences. (I'm not that arrogant, honest.) I don't know where you grew up, but today, in the U.S., the mention of a ghetto does not conjure up images of poor whites living in largely urban areas suffering through economic depression. When most Americans think poor whites, they think trailer parks or mobile homes, not ghettos. Even whites who were born and raised in the ghetto view them as hot beds of crime and deterioration consisting largely of residents who aren't of European descent.

So I don't think it's an issue of personal experience, not in the mainstream American context, which is where the usage becomes problematic. A racial connotation is certainly implied, whether or not it's intentional.

Thanks for your comments, Dai. My experience has taught me that most people are nearly as open-minded as they'd like to think they are. And certainly not nearly as open-minded as they want others to think they are.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate you sharing them on my little rented space here. :-) (It's rented with ads, I don't actually pay them anything.)

Thoughtful and well executed. Thank you for sounding off.

Okay, I just had a flashback to my college days. :-) Professor Landy is that you?

Thanks for the thumbs up. I appreciate it.

Thanks, Miss Couture. I can't say I don't use the word myself, but I don't use it nearly as often as others. Nor do I apply it to anything and everything that doesn't scream "shiny" and "Middle America." Remember when there was a small backlash against the use of the word "gay" for anything that was wack, stupid, or tired. A lot of folks got up in arms about it being applied to everything they didn't consider acceptable, and many members of the LGBT community felt offended by the term's implied meaning.

Well, I remember a few online bloggers speaking out against that slang expression, some of whom mentioned that nothing like that exists for any other group of people. Some said that no one would ever think to use a word like that would be derogatory towards black people. And I was like, "Oh really?! Please, have a seat. Let me tell you about a little phrase I hear all the time."

I think some things become so mainstream that they become accepted without question because "Hey, everybody's doing it, so it can't be all that bad. Right?" I'm not trying to police language, and certainly not slang. I'm just wondering if people bother to pause and think about whether they're communicating something they don't want to say in the plain English because they know it wouldn't be socially acceptable. I guess that's what I'm getting at. It gets into this whole issue of Black vs. Acceptably Black. If I behave like this, I'm cool and I can be your friend, but if I behave like that, I'm "too black" for an acceptably public relationship. That's the kind of relationship I'm hoping to avoid.

in terms of what is and what isn't an acceptable form of dance, which was kind of my point.

I get it now! I think I may have understood that when I first read your post but my brain has a way of taking left turns when the signs say "right turn here." I'm not sure I thought in terms of 'acceptable' - just a matter of which version of the dancing was more enjoyable for me to watch. Then again, I'm a big fan of people having fun, even people who are massively talented and have worked hard to make their activity look effortless. I am attracted to seeing fun or joy in it (even in serious things) because that's the part that makes me say "I want to do that too!!!" Otherwise it's just a job. If that makes sense?

I so appreciate your thought-filled post.
Not Professor Landy, but I am a teacher. We must all have the same repertoire of comments. Drat! I'll have to change it up :)
[this is good]
I saw your post and wanted to say thank you. I am Native American and Latina (and some white as well) and I always correct people when they use the term ghetto...because almost never is it actually used in the proper context yet they see no issue with it!
[this is good]
I'm non-American (and not living in America) but 90% of the English-language-TV-shows we get here are American. So I had lots of questions pertaining to this topic ... this clears it up to an extent. Thanks.
I should add: I work in the ghetto. The deepest part of it here in Nashville. A 13 year old girl robbing and killing the Vietnamese convenience store clerk across the street because "We don't want no Chinese people infestin' our part of town."(Yes her mother said it in her child's defense on the TV.)

That act is ghetto.

Enjoying pork rinds is NOT ghetto. As a matter of fact, it is good and I am going to get some for lunch =).